UFAWU 36th CONVENTION
Mr. Shinners,
Idc
• A highlight of every UFAWU convention is the afternoon-long meeting with representatives of the regional fisheries department. For the fifth time in as many years, fisheries minister Romeo LeBlanc found himself too busy to attend in person. Fielding questions this year were acting regional director Wayne Shinners, herring coordinator Ron Humphreys, Salmonid Enhancement Program director Ward Faulkner and lower mainland director Fred Fraser. Following is a partial transcript of this year's exchange.
LINDSEY DOERKSEN, Albion, Seiner: I would sure as hell like for you to come to a meeting that is not in this union hall, a meeting of fishermen, whether we take it down to a dock or wherever the hell we take it. I would like you to meet with a group of fishermen that would like to talk to you because you're laying down the policies that are wiping out a lot of the people that are involved in that fishery. You've got a proposed plan for the total closure of the Fraser River fishing system. What the hell, we've got the richest bloody salmon river in the world and you're telling the fishermen — last year you gave them 12 openings, this year you are telling us we aren't going to have an opening.
The Americans are fishing, unrestricted lengths, unrestricted depths. They're catching the bloody spring salmon. When it comes to conservation, who the hell gets conservized but the Fraser River fishermen? The Fraser River, and that's where all the fish come from in this province, or a good percentage of it.
WAYNE SHINNERS: You
talk about the Fraser River being the richest salmon river in Canada. I don't disagree with you, but the fact remains that the state of the chinook resource in the Fraser River is at the point of being totally devastated and as the manager personally responsible for looking after that resource, I feel my responsibility is to the resource. Unless we do a decent job of looking after the resource you can forget about fishermen, because there is no need for fishermen if there are no fish. We realize the problems associated with the official closures on the Fraser and I think Mr. Fraser pointed out in his speech that we don't identify the Fraser River gillnet fisherman in particular as being the cause of or the answer to that particular problem.
Steps have to be taken to address the troll fleet off the West Coast and the recreational fleet in the Gulf of Georgia. We have already identified that and I think you'll be hearing more about it in the next couple of weeks. It's another of the considerations we have before the minister right at this moment.
LORNE IVERSON: North Delta, gillnet-troller: I'd like
you understand We can' it is impossible to survh these conditions.9
to address my comments to Mr. Humphreys. I'll restrict my questions to the herring fishery. We met earlier in the month to discuss the roe herring plan for 1981 and you said that (the union's boat quota) plan was administratively impossible to implement. I think that if you had sat down with us to discuss how it could be administered there would have been no problem. I see no problem. You could have printed books especially marked with the vessel numbers on them. You would have to make the packers and the buyers responsible as well as the fishermen to keep the running tally on each licence.
If each is held equally responsible, with liability of losing either the privilege of packing or cash buying. I don't think there would be too many people willing to break that kind of rule.
I'm mad at you for imposing this licensing system which I believe is not going to improve the situation. It is not going to eliminat the rat race. You still have a slug of seine boats on the west coast and you have predicted that you are going to have 850 gillnets and I can't picture myself fishing in a schmuck-up like that. Could you please comment on the quota?
RON HUMPHREYS: My
comments on the vessel quota system I have made many times before. We see it as a costly thing to put together, but frankly we are just notable to accommodate it this year. We havent written it off for all time.
But, secondly, one of the things we evaluated in the options that we had before us is was it an effective way to manage the resource? And when you look at the vessel quota system, first of all you have to start with a safe quota, which is what your organization proposed. That means you always fish the bottom of the values, never fish the peaks. You can never take into consideration the heavy runs of fish that can come through the fishery. You'd never be able to fish those you always have to put it at a very low level, and what we hear from other organizations that was not good enough. They wanted to be able to fish the peaks as well as the valleys.
SCOTTY NEISH, Victoria, crab fisherman: I'd like to address my question to the minister of fisheries.
I figure one of the most important developments since the Davis Plan was inaugurated is in relation to the landing tax. The fishing capacity is increasing at a tremendous rate and this money is coming from the secret commissions and bonuses that are paid after the fish are landed. Sol Sinclair in his report stated that he "guesstimated" that the amount of commissions not declared in the landed value of the catch on the fish slips is from $10 million to $20 million.
I say it is double that and while we have trouble getting fishermen to go on these vessels as crew members because they
• Don Taylor, Steveston Local delegate, tried to impress upon Shinners the drastic impact his regulations are River gillnetters. He presented a petition signed by 420 fishermen protesting the two-area troll system. Linec Lanqvist, Skidegate; Craig Wyllie, Prince Rupert; John Stevens, Ladner; Taylor; and Brian Lande, of Bella (
cannot make a living, the vessel owners are going and buying one, two or three boats and some of tbem have accumulated fleets of fishing vessels.
Now then, will these commissions and bonuses be taxable under the landing tax? We have asked — the fishermen's union — for years that this be included.
My question is: How is the fisheries department going to find out the commissions and bonuses paid in secret to the vessel owners in applying this landing tax?
SHINNERS: I guess I'm answering on behalf of the minister of fisheries because that is who Scotty addressed his comments to. I will see that they are conveyed. The minister last October indicated that he was still committed to the imposition of the landing tax tied into the salmon enhancement program to generate monies to pay for that program, but in view of the poor 1980 season he had to delay it and take a look at the 1981 fishery and decide at that point whether the landing charges would be imposed.
Whether that will happen or not is anyone's guess at this point. With regard to under-the-table deals or payments to large boat owners or seine boat owners, we're advised, Iguess by yourselves, that these things take place. How we can identify them, how we can charge people is something I can't really deal with here. I guess it is more a matter of fisheries as well as one of income tax evasion.
HOMER STEVENS, Ladner, Gillnetter: It may be determined by some people that it is the commercial fisherman who is at the root of the problem that is he who should pay the price. I think that the root of this whole problem we are talking about and many of the others is the Davis Plan, which was instituted in 1968 and still continues. But I am not alone in that thought, as was proved at the meeting held in the city of Prince Rupert during the fishing season last year and I'm assuming Mr. Shinners that you are aware of the fact that Dr. (Wally) Johnston, your predecessor, and Doug Johnson, who is holding a fairly high place, were there.
Dr. Johnston agreed that the Davis Plan was a failure. Doug Johnson said that Wally Johnston wouldn't get fired for making that admission and he himself had got the message from that meeting, which was that the licence should have-been placed on the man rather than on the thing.
He didn't indicate whether he agreed with the message or not but he said it would be taken back. In the meantime we now have a series of measures being proposed in a patchwork style with more restrictions and more penalties being placed on the fisherman.
Every step that seems to be made now moves in the other direction.
I'd like to know just this: is there anybody from the deputy minister level down in the top
leadership that is prepared to say for once, contrary to what Davis said when he produced that foolhardy, dastardly plan, that we will now listen to the fishermen and put the licences on the people who earn their living in the industry instead of making it a transferable product.
SHINNERS: Mr. Stevens, I think we are all aware of the debate that is going on about whether a licence should be on the man or on the boat and I'm sure that with each individual you talk to you'll get a slightly different opinion.
The situation that you made mention of earlier where Dr. Johnston and Mr. Johnson were at a meeting — those were Dr. Johnston's comments. The issue of the licensing though, is one of the questions that Dr. Peter Pearse will be addressing during his inquiry and I'm sure it is one that the UFAWU will take the opportunity to put forward its views.
FRANK MILLER, Prince Rupert, Seiner: What is the department's stand with regard to the summary record of salmon interception talks; and second, what is the comparability of the two sides, is the treaty going to be implemented this year?
SHINNERS: Well, as you all know we had a round of negotiations some two months ago, before Christmas, at which a framework leading to an agreement was more or less agreed upon by both parties, the Americans and the Canadians. That
10/THE FISHERMAN — FEBRUARY 13, 1981