Page 6-The Canadian Jewish News, Thursday, May 13, 1993
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CJN Exclusive
Simon
, Almost from the day he was liberated from the Mauthausen concentrdtiori camp in May 1945, Simon Wiesenihal began gathering information for the occupying U. S. forces to help to bring Nazi warcriminab to justice: A native of the Lvov area of Ukraine, Wiesenihal and his wife, the former Cyla Muller, lost 89 members of their families to the Nazis. After a hiatus from Nazi-hunting activities during the height of the Cold War, he opened the Jewish Documentation Centre in Vienna: Wie.senthal, 85. has been involved in bringing some of the most notorious war criminals to justice, including Adolf Eichmann, the head of the Gestapo's Jewish department who helped implement the Final Solution. He spoke to Vie CJN's Paul Lungen in his office in Vienna.
CJN: Crt/i you explain to pur readers your involvement in the Eichmann case?
Wiesenihal: The biggest criminals [are found] on the basis of teamwork. Teamwork (was important in] the case of Eichmann. No one can say that he. is alone responsible for [finding] Kichmann.
The most important thing Iciid was in 1947. when Eichmann's wife wished to declare him dead [and she relied] on the testimony of a former German soldier who said he saw Eichmann shot to death.
. After the war people made such declarations and if no one [disputed it] within 14 days, the man was declared dead. .But I talked to the judge and he gave me four weeks time and 1 found out'that the soldier.who made the declaration was Mrs. Eichmann's : brother-in-law. So this was the best argument for ; me that the man was alive.
Thejudge called Mrs. Eichmann and said, this declaration is a fake and he warned her not to .repeat it. .
We [watched] Mrs. Eichmann and in 1952 she left her home without"taking any papers for her children who were still in .school. In South America; they didn't need those papers;
In 1958, the Israeli MOssad (secret service) asked me what I knew about Eichmann. We exchanged information. The Eichinann family lives in Linz and I lived in Linz. both on the same street, and I knew a lot about what was going on in their home..
1. gave whatever help I Could, but f was,not in Argentina [when] the Mossad sent Is.ser Harcland sonie other i^cople (to capture him]. The day they brought him to Israel 1 was congratulated by Yad Vashem and 1 was invited to Israel as one of the people who was involved in the Eichmann case.
. CJN: What arc the Docitinentatian Centre's current activities' .
■ WieSenthal: I'll mention one other case that was my hardest case. That was to find the man who arrested Anne Frank. Why? Becau.se the diary of Anne Frank had a bigger impact.in the world than [all] the Nuremburg trials.
[People cannot identify with] tiers of bodies. With a child, with a family, you can identify. And this diary was translated into 32 languages and millions of people know the story. Many .streets and schools and villages are named for Anne Frank.
For the neo-Nazis, the name Anne Frank is a horror. When they saw its' impact. . their newspaf)ers [claimed] it was a Jewish invention' to blamethe Nazis and the Germans: they claimed [it was invented to] get money from the Germans; that Anne Frank never existed: that the diary is a fake. ,
[During an incident in Lihz] where yoiing people interrupted a play about Anrie Frank in a theatre, 1 spoke with one of these young people, and he said to me. 'You are a Nazi-hunter, why can you not find the man who arrested Anne Frank'?
And he said that if the policeman said he arrested Anne Frank, he would believe him. I thought this yoiing man was right. But how [do you] find a man without an office, with nothing written by him, without a name. ;
It wils 1958 when I started. In 1963 I found the man. He was a policeman here in Vienna.
His name was Karl Silberbauer. He said he came with two Dutch policemen and took them to the Dutch police station.
This was really the hardest case. It was not so easy. .
CJN: Who would you say is the most wanted Nazi war criminal today?
Wiesenthah-Alois Brunner. I have doubts if he
is dead. There were reports in some .Arab newspapers that he passed away. He is number one. There are others from the staff of Eichmann that we cannot find. One of them was arrested by me and he escaped from prison in 1948. He was the commandant of Theresienstadt. Anton Berger. We believe he is alive and for us it's an open case.
There are other cases where we don't know if the people are alive, because, don't forget, if someone had a [major] function, by the end of
tween the younger and older generations. Young people are frustrated because they are jobless. Such people can be manipulated. You cannot say even when they paint a swastika on the wall that they are neo-Nazis. It's a matter of a provocation against the West, against Germany, against the older generation.
In Western Germany the police (recently conducted] a search and arrested 26 neo-Nazis. They knew of them. But in Eastern Germany, you have in every place 20, 30,40 young people. Every-
the war he was a minimum of 40 years old, That means that today he would; be 88; . Last year,we found a man who we looked for after the war. We found him on the Canary Islands. The manis 91. He wasthe boss of the anti-Jewish and anti-Polish propaganda in Poland under the governor of Poland, Hans Frank. He's lived there for 20 years. I informed the Poles and they said that this crime, a propaganda crime, is covered by the .statute of limitations.
CJN: Are you alarmed by the rising tide of anti-Semitism in Europe? Does it remind you of the
'1930s? ./
Wiesenthal: No. You cannot compare what is going on today with what happened in the 1930s in Gennany. Neo-Nazi groups were in West Germany almost immediately after the war. but they were under control. Thepolice knew about them. But in the new part of Germany, after the unification, there's a big problem..
No country in the world, not Israel, not the United States, has published so many books about Nazism and against Nazism, so many movies, so many dramatic plays, as West Germany.
In East Germany, there was none of this because the JEast German communists felt they won the war and they weren't responsible for it. Also, East Germany was a part ofthe Eastern bloc with its international Character. They invited groups' of people from many countries, from Asia, from Africa, to train as terrorists. They had also a num-, ber of training camps for the Palestinians and for other people for the "future world revolution".
These foreigners attended East Gennan universities and they had an infiuence on them. There Were [disputes] between the [German] young peo-ple^nd these foreigners. And in the moment of unification, they said, we don-t need the foreigners.
[In addition), young people [were educated to think in terms of) an enemy and ilje enemy was always the people ofthe West and the older generation. [That is Why] we have differences be-
body knows everybody else and they cannot be infiltrated like in Western Germany; .
In the morning they don't know what they will do in the evening: They are always focused on the media and they say. aha. we'jl do the same. Fighting against such groups is not easy. But I believe the government will win against them, absolutely. 1 don't .see any reason for panic.
CJN: You don't see this is a mass movement?
Wiesenthal: No. There arc people who follow the Jextremist] Republican Party. There are a number of smaller organizations, smaller than the Republicans, and they get their votes too. But all the other politicalparties say they won't include the Republicans in a coalition. Arid a political party which can't one day be a member of a government has no future.
CJN: So yoM think when the economy improves-and young people get jobs thai this extremist activity will all blow over?
Wiesenthal: I was in East Germany many times. For years, they saw West German TV and they saw how the people lived. And they wished to have [these goods] — not tomorrow, but yesterday. The only things they Want are better cars, better houses.
CJN: Tlmt'smdre important to them than the issue of the foreigtiers?
Wiesenthal: Yes.
CJN: hi the past yoir've refiised to visit Canada because of its record on war criminals. Can you explain your reasons for that ? c-
Wiesenthal: [Justice Jules] Deschenes (who investigated Nazi war criminals for the federal government in the mid-1980s) was occupied with 7(X) cases. Around 280 were from me. And Deschenes proposed to the government that 26
cases should be brought to trial. The first two cases, Finta and Luitjens, were my ca.ses.
Finta, who was sentenced by a non-communist government in Hungary, was acquitted, and Luitjens they [deported] to Holland. .
If there will be another case, I don't know. But [many who served in] the Ukrainian police came to Canada at a time when according to Canadian law it was forbidden for members of the SS to enter Canada.
[Eight thousand men from the Ukrainian SS division] were transferred from the United Kingdom to Canada between 1948-49 and the law [barring SS men entry] was changed in: 1952. This means that according to the law, they were in Canada illegally.
Among them were a big number of people from the Ukrainian police; in 1944 when the [Nazis] lost this part of Galicia they took out the Ukrainian police and included them in the division,
CJN: Why do you think Canada is .so slow m prosecute the people you think should be brought to justice?
Wiesenthal: Because you have one million Ukrainians in a country with 27 million. A million is a big number.
CJN: Wirt/ would.have to happen in Canada for Sou to change your mind and visit the country?
Wiesenthal: 1 am not going to come to a democratic country and be the ti-ouble-makcr. This is not the way. r remember before the Deschenes commission. I sent [Solicitor General Robertl Kaplan a letter with the names and addresses of 28 Ukrainian SS officers in the region, of Toronto and said, you should find the rest. And.
nothing Was done.
And many of them who I found were in the Ukrainian police. And what did the police do? It was an arm (vf the Nazis again.st the Jews. And in small places in Galicia..it was not the SS. it was the Ukrainian police (who acted against the Jews]. They received.orders ofthe Germans jo
. do it. Sometinies. they did it alone, without
: orders.
CJN: Lx)oking at Other countries which have prosecuted Nazis, do you feel they arc becoming more rehictaht to doso'?
Wiesenthal: Everything is moving to a biologl-.. cal solution,. My last big case was about a man in Stuttgart. Josef Schwammberger. who was arrested 47 years after he committed the crimes and about 10.000 kms from the placeof the crime. He got life, he's in prison.
The Whole value of my work is a warning to , the murderers" of'tomorrow that they can nc\ or rest. All these people in different countries, in South Africa, in Australia, they believe I know muchmore than I know in reality. And there arc some people living under false names who do not sleep more than four weeks in one bed.
What can we do for the future? Warn people that if they commit crimes, they will never be forgotten. I give you the example of Sehwamnr-berger. arrested 47 years after the crimes; Hehiid a very nice house in La Plata. Argentina. He had a very good pension.
This is an example for the murderers of tomorrow. This is the only thing we can do for our : grandchildren and all the grandchildren, because the crimes ofthe Nazis are so enormous that they cannot be-punished.;
CJN; Tliere seems to be a change of focus in the Wiesenthal Centre front going after Nazi war criminals to opposing neo-Nazis and racists.:.
Wiesenthal: [Racism is] all around the,world. We should fight against it.
On the other side, the only pi^siiive result of the war Was the creation of the state of Israel. People don't look on Jews as homeless people.
Our centre in Los. Angeles is doing everything to help Israel, regardless of who is in.government there. And I am doing the same:
I look for friends even from non-Jews,. The inuseum we established in Los Angeles was for the memory of the six million Jews and the mil- . lions of others. _
Immediately. ElieWiesel was against it. Why? Because [he felt] this diminishes the Holocaust when you mentioiTothers also. ' And I say this is not a diminution — we make the guilt ofthe Nazis bigger. For two thousand years, people killed Jews and it had no infiuence on people. For the first time; Jews "and people
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